Posted by: Pagandenma
« on: February 23, 2007, 02:38:39 PM »Caryn, I'll try to be there, but with the flu running through our house I might not make it. Can you still save me a copy of the documentation though? I'll slog through it on my own.
Posted by: carynml
« on: February 23, 2007, 02:35:15 PM »CedarLight Grove will be hosting a discussion on the above tonight from 7-9 PM.
--If you are interested please email me so that I can make sure there are enough copies.--
Directions: http://www.cedarlightgrove.org/about/location/
The VA has published a notice of proposed rule making as a result of the Wiccan Symbol controversy. The new rule has some good wording and some that could be interpreted as a 'catch 22'. Most folks have not been schooled in the reading and interpretation of the Code of Federal Regulations so in our discussion we are going to go over the proposed rule and come up with some talking points that folks can use if they choose to submit comments or concerns on the proposed rule.
Note on last check, only 77 comments had been made. This give fuel to the VA's lawyers that this simply isn't a concern to any meaningful number of veterans or service members or Americans for that matter.
I've posted this on a number of lists so we might get some interested folks.
-Caryn-
--If you are interested please email me so that I can make sure there are enough copies.--
Directions: http://www.cedarlightgrove.org/about/location/
The VA has published a notice of proposed rule making as a result of the Wiccan Symbol controversy. The new rule has some good wording and some that could be interpreted as a 'catch 22'. Most folks have not been schooled in the reading and interpretation of the Code of Federal Regulations so in our discussion we are going to go over the proposed rule and come up with some talking points that folks can use if they choose to submit comments or concerns on the proposed rule.
Note on last check, only 77 comments had been made. This give fuel to the VA's lawyers that this simply isn't a concern to any meaningful number of veterans or service members or Americans for that matter.
I've posted this on a number of lists so we might get some interested folks.
-Caryn-
Posted by: carynml
« on: February 22, 2007, 10:49:03 AM »Quote
* First, ADF isn't participating in this; however, Henge of Keltria is: http://www.keltria.org/Projects/DruidVeterans.htm. The more groups that participate, the better. We should not let them spearhead this, alone.I am almost certain that both Skip and a previous leader several years earlier in ADF both submitted letters in support of the Awen symbol for Druids on Veteran's tombstones. I know I have seen that someplace. -Caryn-
Posted by: carynml
« on: February 22, 2007, 10:43:52 AM »Well getting the VA to accept pagan symbols on federal Veteran's cemetary's is one fight.
Getting the Chaplain's Corps to accept pagan chaplains is a-whole-nother can of worms. I spoke to one of my chaplains one time about the requirements to be a mnilitary chaplain.
1) the person has to have at least a Master's degree in theology from an accredited institution
2) The person has to be backed/sponsored by a national church
3) There has to be a certain number of people in the military willing to list that faith in thier records so that the numbers can be counted and documented.
Also the chaplains corps do not work in the same chain of command that everyone else does. I understand where the chaplain in the article was coming from but from the military and chaplain corps perspective, he was screwed.
Getting the Chaplain's Corps to accept pagan chaplains is a-whole-nother can of worms. I spoke to one of my chaplains one time about the requirements to be a mnilitary chaplain.
1) the person has to have at least a Master's degree in theology from an accredited institution
2) The person has to be backed/sponsored by a national church
3) There has to be a certain number of people in the military willing to list that faith in thier records so that the numbers can be counted and documented.
Also the chaplains corps do not work in the same chain of command that everyone else does. I understand where the chaplain in the article was coming from but from the military and chaplain corps perspective, he was screwed.
Posted by: ravenfire
« on: February 21, 2007, 05:58:04 PM »Caryn,
I put a blurb of the article you posted ("For Gods and Country") on the ADF LiveJournal (to see that, click here).
I've been a little surprised with the comments I have read there:
* First, ADF isn't participating in this; however, Henge of Keltria is: http://www.keltria.org/Projects/DruidVeterans.htm. The more groups that participate, the better. We should not let them spearhead this, alone.
* Second, another user said: "The military absolutely recognizes 'religions' for chaplaincy purposes (and has published various resources on them over the years for its chaplains) and so does the Federal correctional system (and not just for chaplaincy reasons)." Personally, I'm not satisfied with "chaplaincy" alone; at least, in its current form.
* Third, another user states perhaps this is an indicator that "...none of the Druid groups have gotten together enough to properly submit information to the military." This is extremely frustrating -- see my first point.
All in all, it seems like these people are frusted and disappointed. I never would have expected to see those in the words of ADF members.
I put a blurb of the article you posted ("For Gods and Country") on the ADF LiveJournal (to see that, click here).
I've been a little surprised with the comments I have read there:
* First, ADF isn't participating in this; however, Henge of Keltria is: http://www.keltria.org/Projects/DruidVeterans.htm. The more groups that participate, the better. We should not let them spearhead this, alone.
* Second, another user said: "The military absolutely recognizes 'religions' for chaplaincy purposes (and has published various resources on them over the years for its chaplains) and so does the Federal correctional system (and not just for chaplaincy reasons)." Personally, I'm not satisfied with "chaplaincy" alone; at least, in its current form.
* Third, another user states perhaps this is an indicator that "...none of the Druid groups have gotten together enough to properly submit information to the military." This is extremely frustrating -- see my first point.
All in all, it seems like these people are frusted and disappointed. I never would have expected to see those in the words of ADF members.
Posted by: carynml
« on: February 21, 2007, 03:49:47 PM »Yes and its going to be topic of discussion at the Pagan Leadership Conference so those who won't be there Friday, will bring home their thoughts on it also.
Caryn
Caryn
Posted by: quartz
« on: February 21, 2007, 01:33:31 PM »I like that, we're seen as an upstanding group in the pagan community, we should be active in the cause.
Posted by: carynml
« on: February 21, 2007, 12:15:24 PM »When this Friday from 7-9 PM
This has been scheduled on the calendar and I realize that a number of folks will be at the leadership conference. I had initially though about a series of dvd's on post Roman Britian called King Arthur's Britian which is more about what we know and has recently (past 20 years) been discovered about what was happening in post Roman Britian vs the popular myths in both pagan and christian cultures.
So that's one thought.
The other is more important on a pagan front. If you have been following the forum thread under Politics on the Veteran's Administration and the Wiccan Symbol for Veterans. The VA has proposed a notice of new rule making which would guide the VA in acceptance of new religious symbols.
I have read through the proposed rule and I have a number of concerns. However I understand I worked with the Code of Federal Regulations for 15 years and most people are not going to understand what this thing says. The comment period is over on March 20th and Nation Wide this has generated less than 80 comments. This tells the VA that this isn't an issue and nobody cares.
So I am proposing a Lore Mtg on the VA's proposal and coming up with some talking points that our folks can wrap their minds around to make a comment. Its hard to make a comment if you have no clue what the proposed rule is saying.
Thoughts? Comments?
This has been scheduled on the calendar and I realize that a number of folks will be at the leadership conference. I had initially though about a series of dvd's on post Roman Britian called King Arthur's Britian which is more about what we know and has recently (past 20 years) been discovered about what was happening in post Roman Britian vs the popular myths in both pagan and christian cultures.
So that's one thought.
The other is more important on a pagan front. If you have been following the forum thread under Politics on the Veteran's Administration and the Wiccan Symbol for Veterans. The VA has proposed a notice of new rule making which would guide the VA in acceptance of new religious symbols.
I have read through the proposed rule and I have a number of concerns. However I understand I worked with the Code of Federal Regulations for 15 years and most people are not going to understand what this thing says. The comment period is over on March 20th and Nation Wide this has generated less than 80 comments. This tells the VA that this isn't an issue and nobody cares.
So I am proposing a Lore Mtg on the VA's proposal and coming up with some talking points that our folks can wrap their minds around to make a comment. Its hard to make a comment if you have no clue what the proposed rule is saying.
Thoughts? Comments?